Materialism is illogical

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Postby Edward » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:25 pm

It's funnier when they want to punch you in the face for Jesus.
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Re: Materialism is illogical

Postby Lucretius » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:52 pm

Thomas wrote:The most pure and true logic exists in a closed system . . .

Is he confusing thermodynamics with logic?
Critical thinking: That which people who disagree with me, fail to do.

Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum.
(To such heights of evil are men driven by religion.)

- Lucretius, De Rerum Natura
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Re: Materialism is illogical

Postby Edward » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:32 am

Lucretius wrote:Is he confusing thermodynamics with logic?

He's confusing intentionally confusing nonsense for actual English.

Though I suppose the point could be argued that if you engineer a simplified system you can have "pure and true" logic inside that system. Games work that way and there's lots of jokes about playing with narrative logic; several webcomics I read do just that, like Order Of The Stick and Goblins, the Discworld books...

Essentially, though, all that sentence was that little Timmy used was an attempt at sounding intelligent when, in light of the facts, he is not. I should do a video on those lines, "Using big words does not make you right". I'm amazed at how often people think otherwise.
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Re: Materialism is illogical

Postby Skept » Thu Dec 08, 2011 4:17 am

Thomas wrote:The most pure and true logic exists in a closed system

You argument is circular; you seem to believe that you have to internalize all variables in existance in order to be able to reason about the world. What youre saying is that because you can't know all variables, logic is not possible in this material world. And since you erroneously believe that logic is impossible; you create the idea that if we would exist in "the mind of God" as "noetic substance" then we would know all variables in a closed system wich you think is logical, and I suppose "more comfortable".

But actually, without a representation of some sort you will not be able to use logic to begin with. A representation is a signifier for a prototype; such as an apple, a man, a cloud, a tree, etc. If you are trying to explain and prove something with logic but where the conclusion only leads back to the premise, that would be a closed logical system; a logical loop in fact wich is called "begging the question"; a circular argument wich is a logical fallacy.

Since logic is based on representations of prototypes, logic is possible in this material world wich we inhabit; whereas if we would exist in your Gods mind; logic would not be possible at all.. because the mind of your God is circular as well; or perhaps more accurately, what you consider to be your God is a circularity.
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Re: Materialism is illogical

Postby Fyrebrand » Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:31 pm

Aww, looks like I missed the party. I would have just cut to the chase:

Thomas wrote:An immaterial universe where we are all pure noetic substances inside the mind of God on the other hand does open the possibility to; 1: exist in a closed logical system; 2: have via a trancendant medium (God) giving access to all variables in existence.

Unless you can provide evidence for the existence of this "immaterial universe" and demonstrate how we might come to know it, I don't see what there is to talk about beyond hypothetical fantasies.
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Re: Materialism is illogical

Postby atheist_in_a_foxhole » Thu May 31, 2012 5:46 am

I don't have to discount anything. YOU have to prove their existence (i.e. Jesus,Mary, the Lord, etc.) And their existence cannot be proven logically. They are conceived by minds which seek simple answers to very complex questions, and are not concerned with logic in any meaningful sense.
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