Matt drops the F-Bomb, scares away theist

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Matt drops the F-Bomb, scares away theist

Postby Luminus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:48 am

Okay, it was fun while it lasted, but I think it's run its course. This is in reference to the August 29th show that I just listened to. A religious woman, leader of a Facebook religious group, was referred to the show and proceeded to talk without listening. Fine; I understand that's annoying outside of the fact that religious belief itself is annoying.

However, the purpose of this show, this fight, is to get people to see the error in this way of thinking. Correct? It wasn't difficult for me to suspect this woman would have a problem with the way Matt spoke to her and by now, you guys on that show should realize it, too. There's a bigger audience out there, but if you want to reach them... if you want them to listen and to keep coming back — not just the atheists — then you need to modify the way you treat callers.

Swallow your pride a little and hold back on the lethal ammo. That woman was EXACTLY the kind of caller you needed on your show. Now all you've done is confirm her beliefs, which she will now share with her Facebook group and the ignorance will spread from there.
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Postby ExTech » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:58 am

Whoah!

You think she got scared off because of the f-bomb? That was just her extremely lame excuse for running away, nothing more.

She got scared off by the train of logic that led inexorably from "god made hell" to "god tortures people forever." Her "that's so messed up" response was an expression of frustration with "those durned eggheads" and their "silly logic games."

I think she did a wonderful job of showing the weakness of her faith. Anyone who'd run off because of a single nasty word lacks any semblance of courage in her beliefs.

No need to give her more of a pulpit, in my opinion.
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Postby Mythman » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:26 pm

Also, if you were on her Facebook page during the show, she did say she would call back and never did. After the show, someone commented that there were more viewers than usual, and she said something to the effect that if calling back another day would attract more viewers, then she wouldn't do it.

She's clearly just running away from having to defend herself, first with the f-bomb and then with the viewer count.

I do agree that she's the kind of caller the show really needs, and I enjoyed it while it lasted, but she was looking for a way out and Matt handed her an easy one. If he hadn't, they probably would have gone in a few more circles until she came up with something pithy to say and hung up.
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Postby Luminus » Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:52 pm

That's my point. Matt gave her an excuse to run away. That's why he should modify the way he talks to callers. You have to understand the mindset you're dealing with, here. I debate with people all the time and the one thing I realized is that the way you talk to them determines whether or not we're going to have a meaningful conversation and not just a bout of ad-hominem attacks.

If you put people into that kind of defensive mode, how else do you expect them to respond?
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Postby ExTech » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:48 pm

Again, I must respectfully disagree, Lum.

She was not going to "debate," she was going to preach. The one time she actually got caught, she tried to say it was "messed up," as if logic itself were to blame.

That bit o'syllogism definitely put her on the defensive, assuming she wasn't already there.

The reason I continue to disagree with you is that I think there is a benefit to reacting emotionally to ridiculous statements. It's a way of (a) "punishing" someone for saying something dumb, (b) making sure the audience catches the dumb statement and (c) letting the public at large know that you won't put up with dumb statements.

I think this matters, given that "the enemy" relies continually and frequently on dumb generalizations which they are accustomed to slipping into conversation without being challenged.

Did you really want to hear more of her ranting & preaching? Honestly, she sounded like that one caller (years ago?) who said things like, "I know because I know because I know." People like this will never accept reason - they're good for a few yucks is all.
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Postby Mythman » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:36 am

It's also important to note that you really don't get into arguments for the benefit of your opponent because you're rarely going to change their mind, and certainly not in a single argument. It's mostly for the benefit of the audience, theist and atheist, seriously interested in examining the arguments.
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Postby Luminus » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:50 pm

I know it's unlikely that this show will change the mind of a theist. However, you say that a dumb statement deserves "punishment", but any religious statement uttered anywhere is a dumb statement. Should we all just switch to Christopher Hitchens' way of debating, because of this?

I don't like being insulted and I'd be pretty pissed off, if someone assumed I was saying a dumb thing and disrespected me as if we've known each other for years. I can almost guarantee you, whatever conversation we were having would come to a screeching halt and now there would be problems between us. Where I come from, people can get hurt or killed for that kind of disrespect.

You have to remember that we're dealing with humans of varying cultures and emotional states, not cold and calculating robots and thus there is an efficient way to handle them. What Matt is doing is inefficient and to some degree he realizes this, because it used to be worse. Did you notice he doesn't blatantly hang up on people to the degree he used to?

Just because you think a statement is dumb, doesn't mean you should disrespect someone because of it.
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Postby Cephus » Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:47 pm

She wasn't offended by the f-bomb, she would have used any conceivable excuse to hang up once it became painfully obvious that she was out of her league. If he hadn't said that, she would have found another reason.

Let Matt say what he wants to say and if people aren't mature enough to handle it, too bad for them.
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Postby Luminus » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:31 am

Cephus wrote:She wasn't offended by the f-bomb, she would have used any conceivable excuse to hang up once it became painfully obvious that she was out of her league. If he hadn't said that, she would have found another reason.

Let Matt say what he wants to say and if people aren't mature enough to handle it, too bad for them.


Then you're not willing to build a bridge.
Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true.
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Postby Cephus » Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:27 pm

Luminus wrote:
Cephus wrote:She wasn't offended by the f-bomb, she would have used any conceivable excuse to hang up once it became painfully obvious that she was out of her league. If he hadn't said that, she would have found another reason.

Let Matt say what he wants to say and if people aren't mature enough to handle it, too bad for them.


Then you're not willing to build a bridge.


You cannot build a bridge if the other side isn't willing to receive it.
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Postby Luminus » Tue Sep 14, 2010 3:52 pm

That doesn't stop me from trying. If Martin Luther King Jr. had that attitude towards white people, where would we be now?
Just because you believe it, doesn't make it true.
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Postby Mythman » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:20 pm

Did MLK talk to the KKK? I thought he was talking to more moderate folks. People who would actually listen, unlike the caller in question, who clearly wasn't.
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Postby Cephus » Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:55 pm

Mythman wrote:Did MLK talk to the KKK? I thought he was talking to more moderate folks. People who would actually listen, unlike the caller in question, who clearly wasn't.


Precisely.
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Religion is a mental disease.
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Postby clippo » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:35 am

One very good thing about Matt's f-bomb. It brought this forum back to life. I've been saddened by the lack of activity here.
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Postby Mythman » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:52 am

Yeah. Perhaps when Non-Prophets gets back to normal it'll help. Maybe somebody'll approve all the folks in the forum access thread...
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