AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

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AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby Mr.Blahface » Sun Jul 03, 2011 2:57 am

I love the show overall, but I'm afraid that AE is promoting a nasty negative stereotypes. If a theist just happens upon the public access channel as it is starting, he is going to believe that atheists have horrible taste in music. If anyone from AE is reading this, for the love of science, please change the opening song.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby raymond » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:03 pm

lol thats funny, i hate the intro too, and that its so much louder than the actual show
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby sepia » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:05 pm

I don't think so.

I have never heared about such a stereo type.

An intro for a show has other functions than just sounding well: It has to be associated with the show and if it has lyrics or or name it is good, when it deals with the topic of the show.

The show has not much music.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby DjVortex » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:40 am

sepia wrote:I don't think so.

I have never heared about such a stereo type.


It was a joke.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby Lausten » Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:57 pm

Classic patterns of internet forum disucssions

Serious topic introduced
Completely unrelated comments about politics
Someone engages those comments as if they are the topic


Joke made
Someone engages the joke as if it is a serious topic
Completely unrelated comments about politics


I think Hillary wrote that theme song and Obama hired the studio musicians.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby McIago » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:37 pm

I was thinking about something like that.
AE promoting negative Theist stereotypes?
The presenters have, it appears, a great deal of patience in dealing with a relentless onslaught of nonsensical caller ideas. I believe a significant number of calls are fakes, pranks, spoofs or deliberate time wasters. I have actually wondered whether some might originate from supporters of the program.

Whether or not any of these possibilities may be true, it would be equally accurate to say that they promote a negative view of theists. Looking at both sides, I would have to say that, in fact, the presenters show themselves to be knowledgeable, rational, patient and able to engage in coherent and meaningful dialog. The majority of the theists [particularly fundamentalists] show themselves to be without knowledge [even with regard to some of the content of their holy books], irrational, confused, illogical, and/or often unable to speak coherently or engage in meaningful dialog.

A taxonomy of calls would be fascinating and would run the gamut from angry denunciations, with no attempt at dialog, to repetition of meaningless formulae, to novel attempts to rework the formulae without changing the meaning, to legitimate confusion about definitions or issues, to rational or logical attempts to get at problems and even to incomprehensible ramblings.

Overall, in answer to the question posed, there are several groups and individuals whose presentations promote stereotypes or reasonable views about themselves. Since it is a call in show, people who feel that their group is being unfairly represented or stereotyped are free to call in to to balance [or reinforce] the show's presentation.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby whalterman » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:51 pm

I think Muse-Uprising would be a good intro song.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby EnlightenmentLiberal » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:05 pm

Responding to the above comment about fundamentalists.

I've been noticing this trend, perhaps confirmation bias and selection bias, maybe not. While the fundamentalists are just fundamentally and utterly wrong, I think the "liberal Christians" piss me off more in a certain sense and in a certain context. The fundamentalists at least care about what's true, or at least speak and operate as though they care about what's true. I don't get bogged down in discussions where I make a truth claim, and I hear back "but it's true for them" or "it's good for them" or "it gives them comfort, so who are you to say it's not true?". Dealing with liberal Christians is far more frustrating because of the way the conversation works. Instead of discussing what is actually true and what is not, and what are reliable means of discovering truth, when I talk with liberal Christians, I first have to have the conversation that we should have a conversation about what is true, what truth means, and why we should care about what is true.

Again, to contrast and compare, with a fundamentalist, they're already sold on the idea that truth matters. They just happen to think that verifiability and reliability and skepticism aren't really required to get to truth, but they're sold on the idea that for some things, there is only one truth, no matter what people think about the matter.

Whereas for liberal Christians, they have this element of postmodernism that pisses me off. It's a kind of relativism, or nihilism in extreme cases, where they refuse to recognize or talk about truth in any objective sense. Instead, I'm berated about being colonialist or egotistical or unreasonable because I'm saying something is not true which may be "true" for them.

Of course, I'm sure there's lots of overlap.

However, my main point of this post is that I find the liberal Christians to not be obviously less ... deranged? ... or harmful, or noxious, than the fundamentalists. I'm not talking about the ones who don't care. I'm talking about the ones who care deeply, but who also don't hold to any sensible literal interpretation, but who pick and choose based on ... hell if I know.

For example, I was having a conversation my stepfather, a very smart man. (I think I mentioned this in another post.) I mentioned how Christianity is demonstrably false, and he immediately started saying it's not fair say it's false when it works for them, and starting arguing for a very postmodernist relativist position. It was very disheartening. I eventually asked him if there could ever be a position where person A could reliably and reasonably safe that person B is wrong on topic C. At least he acquiesced there, but he did so with the nuance that he would still say that I cannot say that a religious person is wrong about their religious beliefs.

Excepting extreme indoctrination, I'd rather go against a fundamentalist any day. I have no reason to think this - except maybe hope for the human species - but it has got to be easier to break someone down with fundamentalist or literalist beliefs if they're willing to be honest. The liberal Christians are the worst. It's far more difficult to get them to state what they believe, let alone why they believe it, and it's difficult to even get into a conversation where you can talk about what is actually true.

In that sense, I think that liberal Christianity may actually be destructive to critical thinking than fundamentalism. As Jefferson once said, an idea must be distinct before reason can act on it, and liberal Christianity excels at making sure their beliefs never become distinct.

Sorry for the rambling.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby dobbie » Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:30 pm

EL wrote: I mentioned how Christianity is demonstrably false, and he immediately started saying it's not fair say it's false when it works for them, and starting arguing for a very postmodernist relativist position.


I say that he, your stepfather, didn't believe what he said. He should've worded it like this: leave them alone if it works for them--yeah, it's false, but they like it, so there's really nothing wrong with that.

Put it another way: Don't try to take Christianity away from them unless you have something of equal value to replace it with. Something from which they can derive comfort or self-esteem equal to that of their doctrine.

Of course if they step on your toes with their doctrine, you're perfectly within your right to present your reasons why you see it as false.

Or he could have said: Yes, it's false--but from their relativistic point of view, it isn't false to them.

That perspective makes more sense to me. Further, he started to come around, albeit his contradiction in terms?
EL: I eventually asked him if there could ever be a position where person A could reliably and reasonably safe that person B is wrong on topic C. At least he acquiesced there, but he did so with the nuance that he would still say that I cannot say that a religious person is wrong about their religious beliefs.

I see a contraction in terms there, and I'm not sure what to do about it.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby McIago » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:15 pm

Saying that fundamentalists care about the truth at all, much less more than mainstream or liberal Christians is is so far off the chart wrong I can't believe someone actually wrote it.

These people believe Ken Hamm, Ian Juby, and other Creationists who want to take the truth, a.k.a. science, out of the public schools and replace it with Bible belief, and their own weird Bible interpretation that Catholics and mainstream Protestant denominations don't believe in. In Pennsylvania Creationism, a.k.a. Intelligent Design, was ruled illegal because it violates separation of church and state because it it purely religious doctrine, NOT science. Texas fundamentalists also want to remove critical thinking skills from the public schools because it might cause young people to "question the beliefs of their parents."

These are not truthful people. They are not truthful because they continue to try to hide their agenda and to pretend that religion is science. Even if you grant that the majority [not including the snake oil salesmen that promote those beliefs for money] actually believe that the false information is true, they are not interested in finding out the truth, only in preserving their false beliefs from any question or challenge. Protecting your belief by trying to stop other people from questioning it and looking for the truth is unacceptable, as is allowing the liars for cash to continue deceiving people.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby EnlightenmentLiberal » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:32 pm

I agree the fundamentalists are wrong. From my very limited experience, they know what the truth is, and they're willing to disregard anything else because they already know what the truth is. This willful ignoring of contradictory evidence is dishonest, an unreasonable, but IMHO it is done out of a genuine desire for the truth. They still argue quite strenuously that truth means the one true truth, and that no one can have their separate, different, but somehow equally "true" truth. As opposed to the liberal Christians who don't seem to care what the truth is, and only care about the comforting value or consoling value.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby McIago » Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:07 am

Thus it is the fundamentalists "who don't seem to care what the truth is, and only care about the comforting value or consoling value." You argue against your own position. Furthermore your statement is logical only if you accept the internal "logic" of the fundamentalists. Finally, it doesn't matter what religion they claim to be [Christian, Hindu or Muslim] they are deluded and a poisonous element that endangers other members of the society that disagree with them.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby EnlightenmentLiberal » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:43 pm

I'm sorry. I don't know how you misread it. When I said:
"As opposed to the liberal Christians who don't seem to care what the truth is, and only care about the comforting value or consoling value."
I meant:
"Liberal Christians seem to not care what is true. They seem to only care about the comforting value or consoling value."

I did not mean what you said I said:
"the fundamentalists "who don't seem to care what the truth is, and only care about the comforting value or consoling value.""
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby McIago » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:59 am

What I did was to invert your statement to show that it works better when applied to fundamentalist Christians. Liberal Christians and skeptics do not cling to proven falsehoods for comfort. There is no comfort in falsehood or fairy tales.

It is most definitely religious people, and usually fundamentalists, who cling to fairy tales like Noah's Ark, outright lies as told by Ken Hamm, Ian Juby and others [their "Creation Museum" teaches the Flintstones as history]. It is these fearful people who want to remove evolution and critical thinking skills from schools because their children might begin to doubt their false but familiar and comforting worldview.
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Re: AE promoting negative atheist stereotypes?

Postby EnlightenmentLiberal » Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm sorry. I disagree.

I try to avoid second guessing people when they clearly say what they believe and why they believe it. In that case, the fundamentalists are rather clear that they care deeply about the truth. They're just dead wrong on how to go about deciding what the truth is, but oh do they care about the truth.

When I hear someone saying that I'm wrong and they are right, it's a fundamentalist, not a liberal. When I hear someone saying "you can't say religious people are wrong! - there's more to it than whether it's true!", I can be sure that I'm talking to a liberal christian. It's this kind of post-modernist relativist claptrap that irritates me the most - probably because I expect more from the liberal christians. I suppose I need to lower my expectations.

As I understand your position, it's that the fundamentalists are all lying when they purport to care about the truth, and what they really care about is the comforting value. Sorry - I don't see it at all.
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