EL wrote: The part that still bothers me to no end is how someone like that pastor can correctly identify that without a god, there is no objective purpose nor values, under one very pedantic definition of terms.
Yes. And in his introduction Matt explained that atheism is solely concerned with the question whether a particular God exists. Said that "Everything else is something else." So, the way I see it, the pastor's concern for objective values is beside the point. The only point is, is whether the pastor's God exists.
I'll parse this further. About those objective values themselves, the pastor actually doesn't have any, or know of any. He can only believe his particular God exists, as well as believe his God instructed him what to do or how to behave. But he can just believe it and not know it; so it comes back to relative values again, as far as the pastor's values are concerned, since his religious beliefs are relative values as well.
The pastor himself should have known, or remembered, that the Book of Job says to never mind what you personally think about right and wrong. But instead, to continue to do what you believe your God tells you to do. And, if the pastor should ever believe, for example, that the Christian doctrinal beliefs and the Jewish doctrinal beliefs are the same, he'll merely be talking to himself. The deal is, since the Christian doctrine and Jewish doctrine aren't the same, those religious doctrinal beliefs are relative values. So I don't see what objective values or purpose the pastor can name. I have no problem, however, with seeing what beliefs he can name.
The anecdote the pastor started out with, about Billy and the kids at camp. He could just as easily have told it in a different way, a way in which Billy would tell the other kids, "The camp counselor likes me, and I like the camp counselor." And since the kids themselves universally like the camp counselor, they realize that Billy was worthwhile liking, too. Thus the story didn't need to have Jesus in it.
Besides, Billy doesn't know he's a saved Christian. No Christian knows they're saved according the New Testament doctrine. They can only hope they're saved. So going by the Christian doctrine itself, Billy really didn't know whether Jesus or God was on his side as far as the concept of Christian salvation went. Therefore, I say that my story, in which the camp counselor likes Billy, is a safer bet.
In fact the pastor said that even he struggles with doubt sometimes [15:25]. I say he shouldn't have to struggle if he really knows he's a saved Christian. Yet, that's not the way it works with him. Because, instead he struggles with doubt sometimes, as to whether God exists.
EL wrote: It bugs me so much, and he said it at least twice. "Humans have innate value, because they are created by god."
I have to take issue with the pastor on that concept, too. That is, "humans have innate value because they were created by God"; so God wiped out humankind in the story of Noah's Flood. That's how much innate value humans had. And what's more, commanded Moses to send and kill all the inhabitants of a town, but take young females to be captives. Again that's how much innate value. And in the New Testament, humans (who have innate value) will go to hell forever because they don't believe in Jesus. Innate value? I must be dense, because I don't get it.