Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill

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Re: Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill

Postby Lausten » Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:55 pm

It turns out that Atwill has now posted that "Flavian Signature" half-hour excerpt from the documentary on you tube. It's here:

OMG, this guy is tailored made for conspiracy theory lovers. He salts his speech liberally with statements about how you just need to open your eyes and how accepting this is “good citizenry”. The simplest rule from the scientific method should debunk this for you. If, as he says, “you just have to look at these two stories side by side”, then any decent historian should be able to do that and either agree with or refute him. So why has his work not yet been confirmed?

This idea of “wiring directly” is something I’ve never heard a good historian use. So, either every other historian is doing history wrong, or there is a conspiracy preventing them from doing it right. When he used language like “it requires of an alert reader” and “it’s a requirement of every person who wants to know the truth about the gospels” and “this is beyond impossible” I wrote him off. He is appealing to my emotions, not to my intellect.

I don’t know enough to examine and refute every detail of his thesis, but I don’t need to. Given the examination of his language above, and a little knowledge of a couple of the stories he talked about. His parallel to the Good Samaritan was a joke. To lower the Bible story to a hero simply coming to the aid of others was sad. I’m sure he does this in the other stories as well. There is no point in examining his work any further.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill

Postby ArchAtheistDave » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:22 am

The whole Caesar's Messiah idea assumes that the holy Roman church created almost the entirety of the idea of the savior, Jesus. You can forget the rest right there. There is decent evidence that the idea of a holy man named Jesus was around at least in the last half of the 1st century BCE, maybe before. This was an entirely theological construct, not mythicized yet. The idea would have fit both the Jewish(orthodox & helenized) and the newer Gnostic religions quite well.

It is absolutely the fact that early Roman church chose the direction the resulting religion would go and created the bible to fit their needs, but there was a whole lot more variance on religions at that time than is accounted for here, and it would have been very difficult for large changes to be made to the already existing stories. It would have made a lot more sense to co-opt the existing ones and interpret them into the canon as it developed through incorporation and redaction.

Yeah, I'm in pretty much the same camp as Acharya and R.M.Price about the christ myth. There was no human Jesus as the story is told, and the son of an emporer was almost certainly not the model.
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Re: Caesar's Messiah by Joseph Atwill

Postby DaveL » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:38 pm

Here is another excerpt from the CM doco:

This is a bit on the Son of Man prophecy. It's not authorized, though, so it may not stay up.
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprize, every expanded prospect.
-- James Madison
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